By GreatSchools Staff
Where does it come from, and why do they do it?
The destructive behavior can start as early as preschool but tends to be most pronounced in early adolescence. In Queen Bees and Wannabes, Wiseman, describes the clique as a life raft for adolescent girls. "Imagine you and your daughter on a cruise ship," she writes. "Girls start telling each other the ship is stupid and boring and it's time to get off. As you watch helplessly, she leaves behind everything that is safe and secure, gets into a life raft with people who have little in common with her except their age, and drifts away."
Once she's on the raft, she's too far away from you and realizes her survival depends on bonding with the other girls in the raft. She's desperately afraid of being cast out. Wiseman uses this analogy to show the fear girls have and how they feel forced to act a certain way to be accepted by their peers.
"Cliques are self-reinforcing," writes Wiseman. "As soon as you define your role and group, you perceive others as outsiders. It's harder to put yourself in their shoes, and it's therefore easier to be cruel to them or watch and do nothing."
Of course, not all girls are nasty and belong to cliques. But whether or not they are "in" or "out," all girls will be affected by the actions of cliques because these behaviors are all around them. They need to understand how this social pecking order works, how they can act differently in their relationships and rise above it.
Technology makes the problem worse
Many parents downplay the problem of cliques, says Wiseman, and think, "Oh well, it's not a big deal. We had these problems when we were growing up." But Wiseman counters that it is a much bigger problem now. "We didn't have the Internet and cell phones when we were growing up," she notes. "We didn't have text messaging, instant messaging and MySpace." Technology makes it easy for kids to be anonymous in their meanness, and spread rumors and gossip like wildfire far beyond the school grounds.
Julia Taylor, a school counselor in Raleigh, North Carolina, and author of Salvaging Sisterhood and Girls in Real Life Situations, two curriculum guides for middle and high school girls, is equally concerned. "With the Internet and cell phones, with one click, they can ruin lives. And with the ease of use, they don't realize what they are doing, and they can't take it back."
What can schools do?
With increased demands on schools to increase test scores and improve student achievement, it's no wonder that behavior issues may take a back seat. But as far as Wiseman is concerned, there should be no excuses. "We need to create safe schools and deal with problems at the beginning rather than waiting," she says. "We can't act shocked and amazed that these behaviors happen with so-called nice kids at school."
Stan Davis, author of Schools Where Everyone Belongs, believes that schools need to provide a "safe and affirming school climate" for both boys and girls characterized by:
- Consequences for aggression that are inevitable, predictable and escalating
- Positive feedback to students, and a positive feeling and tone
- A staff who spend time with students, especially students at risk
Schools can work at changing their culture bit by bit, says Davis. "School staff need to believe that it is their job to forge genuine relationships with students. They can set a goal that each student should have a positive relationship with at least two staff members. In that way, the staff members model the behavior that everyone here is important and students get a clear message." He believes that when staff members discipline students for acts of aggression, the consequences they employ work better in the context of meaningful staff-student relationships.
In her work with girls, Wiseman found that many girls think all adults are clueless about what goes on in girl relationships. She works at getting them to understand that there are adults they can turn to. She advises girls in her support program to seek out at least one adult who can be their advocate. She teaches girls how to interview and identify which adults they can feel comfortable with, and then seek them out in time of trouble.
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Comments from GreatSchools.org readers
12/28/2009:
"For too many kids, going to school is their daily nightmare. Nobody
should have to be at the receiving end of constant humiliation and
harassment.
The need to belong - to fit in - is great. Self-esteem workshops empower
girls to have the confidence to make the right choices and still be a part
of the group. Turning against the person who was your friend yesterday,
doesn't ensure your safety. Tomorrow, it could be your turn.
Schools need to invite experts to lead workshops that include the power of
the bystander who is present in 85% of bullying situations and can change
them if they know how.
Schools also should develop policies and include consistent consequences
for non compliance and distribute them. Not knowing is not an excuse.
Now that we know what to do and what methods work, let's get to it!
"
12/7/2009:
"As a girl in middle school who sees this kind of stuff every day, this
article was not very helpful. Things like this always say to go to an
'adult' but either the adult is completely ignoring the behavior or they
join in it. Girls won't care if you tell an adult because unless you have
proof then nothing will be done about it or the teachers will just tell
you 'suck it up, that's life'. Even then, they're probably not going to do
something mean directly in a teacher's face, they'll get in trouble.
Teachers need to pay attention in the hallways and outside of school more.
Plus, there are two sides to every story. Your little girl can say oh they
harrassed me about my clothes, but what she doesn't say is that she
started a rumor about their boyfriend or that she harrassed them first.
I've seen way too many innocent people being called 'bullies' for getting
in a fight with 'the nicest girl in school' yet, the 'nicest girl in
school' has been harrassing said person the entire t!
ime and the innocent person has had enough of it and decides to bite
back.(Teachers,parents,principals have done nothing about it so you have
to right? That's the thought that goes through their mind.) Also bullying
can be misunderstood. I've been in a situation where I didn't like a
person, and they constantly followed me around even after I told them to
stop it. They stalked me down and spread rumors of how 'mean' I was, and
that I was a bully. Sometimes you can just geniunely not like a person and
you don't want to hang out with them. You're not a bully for that. It just
means that their personality clashes with yours and you'd rather not be
their friend. Unless you have absolutely no idea who this person is but
you don't like how they dress or they got better grades than you etc. and
you just mess with them for those types of reason then THAT is bullying.
Also a lot of kids are socially awkward and shy. Teach them some social
skills! If you're sitting next to them and a!
ll they do is sit there, quietly or they just stare at you the!
n chances are you'll move away and talk to someone else. In short: Get
teachers who will actually HELP the problem, make sure bullies actually
get PUNISHED for what they do, make sure you're not singling out the wrong
person as the bully, and teach kids social skills. Do all this and I can
gaurantee your bully problem will be over."
08/10/2009:
"My 11 year old son was being bullied by a girl in his class while in the
5th grade last year. The girl would always make racist comments towards
him and putting him down and putting her race above his. When my son
mentioned it to me and asked if one race of people were better than others
I was surprise to hear him ask this(we have always teached our children
that all people are equal) He then told me this girl always made him feel
uncomfortable and would tell other kids not to play with him or to talk to
him and that she would throw stuff and him during class. I told him this
was not ok. and that I would take care of it. I also did not know that the
same girl was in his after school program class and the nasty behavior was
also happening there as well. I wrote a letter to his teacher and CC both
the principal and the after school program director and ask that this
problem be taken care and if I saw that nothing was resolved within 3 days
I would be contacting the School D!
istrict Board of Directors and the after school directors as well.
Needless to say the next morning the girl was spoken to by the teacher,
the principal, and the after school program director. She was also asked
to apologize to my son. The after school teacher also spoke to the entire
class about making racist comments and bullying not being acceptable. I
was very please the way the school handled it and the girl was no longer
mean and actually got along well with my son after. "
08/4/2009:
"I have a 9 year old that has been bullyied since K- present. I have argued
and went off on the school to help but they seem to push everything under
the rug. She comes home with bruises and lies about what happened because
they threaten to jump her two or three in a group. When she didn't get
into a charter school I applied for she screamed and cried out like a
wounded animal and it broke my heart. I set up a meeting with the school
to address these issues and they made her out to be the bad person. She is
taught to be a peace builder and not use her hands but when she speaks to
them to be nice she is told she shouldn't communicate with them is they
are treating her bad. They curse her out, hit her treat her badly and this
year I will not tolerate not one second of it. The authorities will be
called if I find one bruise on her and I will go to the regent office to
investigate this school. I can't afford catholic school and almost all the
schools in my area are failing school!
s. I don't see the need to move her from one to the other.I told my
daughter where ever you go there is a bully this is how they justify
trying to be big and bad and feel better about themselves. I told her
never give them the power over you. Together we will fight the whole
school if we have to but don't let them get away with it. "
06/24/2009:
"I'm going to eight grade this next semester on a new school because I
couldn't take how people treated me back at my other school in Puerto
Rico. Boys were really mean to me and girls were even meaner. Back at my
other school there were 3 classes of people: The Rich Brats, The Wanna-be'
and the Weirdos. The rich brats were the ones who never did anything and
if they did nobody would do anything because they were rich. The wanna-be
always tried to be like the rich brats. The weirdos-like me- didn't mind
being at the bottom of the food chain because we knew that we weren't
always gonna be at the bottom of the food chain. One time a girl named
Sheika (the principal's daughter) threw a ball(on purpose at my friends
and hit one of them in the belly. We told the teachers and the told us not
to be such cry babies! I hope that in my new school people aren't so mean
and that teachers don't like some students MUCH better than others."
06/8/2009:
"I'm a 7th grader in Catholic School. I've gone to this school since 3rd
grade. Even from the very beginning, people were not the nicest there. My
cousin, who is in the same grade as me, does not have all of the problems
that we have. His class, in general, seems much nicer. Although, 2 years
ago, he went to Catholic School and he had a terrible time. The older
girls there were cruel to him, and one girl especially would take the time
every day just to mess with him. When I heard this, I immediately thought
of how much it sounded like the people at my school. My parents recently
bought a house in the same town. It's a small town. Right now I live in
the city. I've lived in the same small house all my life. This house that
we bought went on auction due to economic problems. When word got out that
I was moving into such a nice house, all of the girls were a lot nicer and
more polite than usual. They wanted to throw a big sleepover. You see, it
may sound rude, but I really don't!
tolerate being used just for my material objects. Up until this
incident, I'd never really seen eye-to-eye with most of the girls. They
are very immature and do things I would NEVER do. Whenever I meet my
cousin's friends from public school, they don't act at ALL like my
classmates. It may seem stereotypical, but it seems that children at
private schools are generally more cruel. Maybe it's because private
school children tend to have more money. Maybe, because they are in such
tight school, they develop the idea that they are better than others.
Whatever the reason, it needs to be stopped. Innocent people get treated
like dirt everyday. They get used, or put dowb, or harrassed. I have to
admit, a lot of it IS the girls, but boys do it, too."
05/28/2009:
"I am a mother of a 12yr old girl who is the 'leader of the pack' so to
speak- with what seems to be a tight-knit clique at school. I know my
daughter is charismatic and has a strong personality, but I never realized
she'd be the one with a 'following' at school. At a parent/teacher conf.
her teacher tells me he really enjoys having my child in class,that she's
funny, smart, etc..but, that he'd noticed her and her friends weren't
always pleasant with those outside their group. I have watched closer
since he told me that. I was getting worried when I saw that her 'group'
was alienating one girl on purpose because they thought she was a bit
socially weird. I talked with her and asked her to reach out. I let her
know that as the leader of her group she had to be the one to reach out or
no one would. She actually listened! I can tell you, that now that I
know of her so called influence over this group, I intend to try really
hard from letting her or her group from becomin!
g the 'clique' stereotype. Parents can have a positive influence as
well-not just negative!I am greatful her teacher paid attention and
actually informed me. "
05/26/2009:
"In some cases such as the middle school my daughter attends staff have
gone too far and need to be reeled in. I was recently contacted by a
teacher because my daughter and her female friends would hug each other
when they would meet. I was told this was happening outside of the class
but that the school had a policy against it. I told the teacher Ifound
this policy to be extreme and that I did not have a problem with the
behavior. She was quite shocked. Parents do need to support the schools
but also need to speak out when things have gone too far. "
05/21/2009:
"I am a parent of a 5th and 6th grader. They both have cell phones and
they both understand that it is a responsibility and priveledge to have
cell phones. The number one priority to have a cell phone is safety. And
the ultimate responsibily of communication between us lies within them.
They also understand that I have the ability to monitor their texting
anytime. It amazes me how many of their friends say that their parents
would never look at their texts and give them privacy. Well, let me tell
you, more parents should be looking at what their 6th grader is texting."
05/18/2009:
"Well, I found the article to be very helpful especially in the beginning.
Unfortunately, it moved toward defining all behaviors as bullying.
Bullying has been defined specifically and doesn't allow for the nuances
of excluding and subtle gossip, misinformation etc. I would like to see
the more subtle but equally hurtful aspects addressed."
03/3/2009:
"This a great website page but I had found out my daughter has a different
situation which only involves girls fighting over things that do not
involve boys but families and other friends that have revenge on one
another. Also my children are in high school and they have these
situations happen to them everyday! What can i do about it?!"
07/23/2008:
"This is a good article, but girls can be mean to boys sometimes also. In the 5th grade I was harassed by several girls at my school but the teachers at my school didn't do a thing about it!
They thought they were just 'nice girls'. The next year the same problem persisted. Those same girls at school lied to the teachers to get several boys suspended. I was almost suspended for no reason but the principle believed me. But the girls still didn't get in trouble! It almost seems as if girls are getting away with anything and everything in the public schools these days. The parents really need to step up and do something about this because obviously the teachers aren't."
12/17/2007:
"I'm 15 there's this bully at my school she's mean to me for no reason my friends and mom say it's jealousy she puts stuff in my hair and in class she throws thumb tacs at me. And she got freshmen princess and I'm thinking she should be happy but she's not...just cause she's not happy with herself doesn't mean she needs to try and make other people miserable. It's just so annoying! Just thought I'd share that story with everyone!"
12/6/2007:
"I'm appalled at some of these comments. Referring to little girls and brats and saying that girls are awful is ignorant and mean. I'm thrilled to hear that you don't have girls either, imagine how you'd treat them? I have raised two boys and two girls and each gender brings joys and challenges to parenting, but I wouldnt change a thing. The issues with bullying were usually present when there were three girls or boys together..it just creats a dynamic that encourages divisiveness. Two against one..that sort of thing. As soon as your child is being bullied, report it, in writing to the school officials. If the bullying is persistent and pervasive, have an attorney write a Gebser Notice. If your child is harmed in any way, instruct him or her to go to the nurses office so an incident report is filed. I hope you all have a happy holiday!"
11/26/2007:
"My 10 year old daughter just started a new school this year, and already she has been tagged by some bullies. A group of girls started antagonizing her about her clothes, but my daughter verbally defended herself and told them that she didn't care what they thought of her. Now the girls have started to spread rumors about her to other children, and she has been ostracized by all but one child. I just had the first trimester parent/teacher conference and although my daughter is at the top of the class with her academic test scores, her grades for her schoolwork is in the 'D' range. She tells me that she cannot concentrate on her work at school because the children are constantly saying mean things behind her back. When I mentioned this to her teacher, she just said that she has not seen anything like that from the other children. What can I do? Should I just change schools? This is the first time that something like this has ever happened and I do not want my daughter's grad!
es or her love for school to drop. Please someone give me some good sound advice. I am not sure what to do or where to turn."
11/15/2007:
"My daugher in 6th Grade is being bullied by a friend of hers and another girl in her class for no reason at all. This started only recently, they are pulling her hair at recess, hitting her arm and pulling her jacket. She stood up for herself one day and now I brought it to the attention of the guidance/councillor at the school. She is doing everything right by reporting them, but when and how does this stop? Anyone out there to give me some clues. This is a friend of hers that she thought was a good one and was also bullied when she was in 2nd and 3rd grade. My daughter only got to know her last year.
What's the best next step to take?
Concerned Mom"
11/13/2007:
"TO THE MOTHER FROM NORWOOD: WE ALSO HAVE THE NOT ALLOWED TO START A PROBLEM, HOWEVER IA ALLOWED TO DEFEND SELF. IN THIS CASE IT IS MY SON AND THE SAME RULE APPLIES. SCHOLL IS VERY GOOD ABOUT NIPPING THESE THINGS IN THE BUD- HOWEVER THEY CANNOT SEE EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME. JUST KNOWING HIS PARENTS WILL BACK HIM UP HAS A MAJOR CONFIDENCE BOOST AND THE RESULTING SELF-ESTEEM HAS SO FAR BEEN ENOUGH TO STOP ANY FURTHER EVENTS TO DATE. ALSO, A MARTIAL ARTS SELF-DEFENSE CLASS WILL DO WONDERS FOR A CHILD'S ATTITUDE AND SELF- AWARENESS. KEEP IN MIND MOST KIDS ARE BULLIED BECAUSE THEY LOOK LIKE THEY WON'T STICK UP FOR THEMSELVES, AND ONCE THEY ARE READY TO DO SO, THE OTHER KIDS WILL PICK UP ON THAT AND MOST WILL NO LONGER BE A PROBLEM TO YOUR CHILD."
11/13/2007:
"This was helpful but it's not always a click being bullies, sometimes it is a solitary child who bullies. The child that is jealous of the friendship 2 other children have, or just a child that is so unhappy that she is mean to others."
11/13/2007:
"I don't want to sound pessimistic, but unless parents admit that their children are bullies and do something about it, the problem will persist. Too many parents take the 'Not my child' approach.
My 3rd grade daughter was being bullied by a fellow 3rd grade girl. This girl was conflicted because she really did't have a problem with my daughter, her mother had a problem with me. This was talked about at home and I'm sure this little girl overheard the negative comments. I read Ms. Wiseman's books and took her advice and positively confronted the mom. I could tell the mother was embarrassed but our children are playing together again and the bullying has stopped. "
11/12/2007:
"I've noticed that the girls who are mean at my daughter's school are very much reinforced by their parents. We even have one little girl's mother who uses her influence as a friend of other parents to get them to leave some girls out of parties or outings because her daughter 'doesn't feel comfortable around them, because they are too wild' In reality her daughter is turning into a quietly vicious bully and hurting others to boost her own self-esteem. I am continually shocked that any parents buy into this kind of behavior. What grown person gossips about 9 and 10 year old girls? I haven't noticed that the school system here is very helpful. The town is small and official seem eager to blame outsiders or children from 'problem homes' but they never do anything to help with the children of the adult cliques that have lived here for a long time. The best advice I can offer anyone is to check out other groups in your community, through your church, girl scouts, the YMCA or the !
Boys and Girls clubs of America, etc. Take your children to other places where they will have an opportunity to make better friends. Also, American Girl Company offers some great books for girls to help them deal with bullies an mean girls at their school. "
11/12/2007:
"Mean Girls behavior starts at home. I know some kids who engage in this behavior and they absolutely learn this at home. Quite frankly it is oftentimes encouraged by their parents! Parents who are jealous of the achievements of other children can be some of the worst offenders. Unbelievably, one of the worst cases of girls being mean to other girls was very surely promoted by the wife of a YOUTH MINISTER I know. She, herself was very cliquey, and made no effort to conceal the fact that she felt she was better than some of the people she knew at her church and the school she worked at. She was a liability for her husband, who is now a pastor in another town. Her own daughter did horribly mean things to other girls in her class at school. The mothers attitude was so blatant, that anyone with eyes could observe where and why the daughter acted so rotten. I think it always eventually goes back to what kids are taught at home. Shame on some parents!!! "
11/8/2007:
"Thank you for the article on 'Mean Girls'. My daughter has been dealing with one particularly controlling and threatening girl (and the pack of girls she controlled) since she was three, she is now ten. Last year, she finally learned how to stand up to the main girl, throwing back insults instead of taking them and 'accidentially bumping into' the mean girls when they hit her. By the end of the year, the girls left her alone.
My daughter also had issues in summer camp with boys pushing and hitting her. We worked with her and one day she hit back, hard. The boys left her alone after that. This has given her great confidence and she no longer accecpts bullying. She is no longer a victim.
She is not allowed to throw the first insult or punch, but she is allowed to defend herself, even though it is against the school rules.
To the mother with the daugher at Norwood Middle School, put her in Karate or some other Marshall Arts. Teach her how to fight verbally and physically and that she can fight back. Bully's choose people who are too nice to fight back."
11/8/2007:
"SCHOOL DISCLPINE, DEPENDS ON THE PRINCIPAL WHO HAS TO BE STRONG BUT NOT OVERBEARING,IN ADDTIONAL HE OR SHE MUST COMMUNICATE TO HIS STAFF AND PARENTS ABOUT THE DISCLPINE POLICY. THE PRINCIPAL MUST BE FAIR AND THROUGH IN MAINTAINING THE POLICY THROUGH OUT THE SCHOOL AND AFTER SCHOOL.WITH NO COFUSING TRIVA,BUT BE FAIR AND THROUGH
PARENTS UNDERSTAND THE RULES AND REGULATIONS WHEN THEY ADMINSTERED, WITH NO LEWAYS FOR THE RICH,OR WHOSE WHO IN THE COMMUNITY."
11/7/2007:
"Thanks so much for the article on 'Why Are Girls So Mean'. My daughter is nine and in the fourth grade and is already experiencing the cliques and the back lash from insecure girls. Your article was helpful and insightful to me. I would also recommend the book 'Reviviving Ophelia' "
11/7/2007:
"I have heard about and seen on T.V. many examples of the Mean Girls.
This however has been with girls in the latter years of elementary school or in
middle or high school. I was so surprised and unprepared to handle this
when it happened in my daughters Kindergarten class. Yes this is not a
typo I said Kindergarten. She was told by a group of girls over a course
of several days that she could not be their friend because 'she was
not cool, she is not wearing pink, she has too many ponytails, she has to
few ponytails' . Once this group decided to accept her two days later
they told her 'You are fired you can't be our friend anymore.'
Thankfully my daughter has a personality to play alone. She told the girls '
What is cool - Well I don't know how to be all those things. I just
know how to be me' She began to play with her imaginary friend. I was
not aware of this until inquiring how she liked Kindergarten and she
began to describe all the fun things to play with but 'I wish I had
some friends in that Kindergarten.' Once bringing this to the
teachers attention it was addressed and I found out from her that other
parents had the same complaints. We are still working on helping her "
11/7/2007:
"I am glad that you have discussed this as an issue. I hope parents would get lot of helpful tips in combating this problem."
11/7/2007:
"I am the mother of the student who was beat-up,video taped, and then aired on the internet at Norwood Middle School. I was quite surprised & at the same time happy to see that someone is addressing the issues of bullying and the mean girl syndrome. Unfortunately, Norwoods' view on this is it was just two girls fighting and that I have only made a big deal and blew the whole thing out of proportion because it was on the internet. These fights are becoming more and more vicious. My daughter had only known these girls for two days when this all happened. There were eight girls there all together. You did not hear one of them yelling out my daughters' name. Why? She did not know them. She is new to this school system. I have to fight the school every inch of the way to get them to do anything at all. She is pushed tripped and picked on every day now because two of the girls have been charged and there is going to be a trial as they plead not guilty. By picking on, I mean, bein!
> > g pushed, tripped in the hallways, students pushing each other into her and the list goes on. These girls parents are empowering them and letting them know how wrong we are for filing the charges against them. The school is really not taking any responsibility for what has happened. We have even been talking to the Superintendent of the school here. Anyone have any life lines they would care to throw out? We are standing firm and strong against these kids and their parents. I thank-god every day my child has morals and standards."
11/7/2007:
"So blessed I DON'T have girls! Boys are so much easier. I always feel sorry for those who have girls. My sisters put my parents through heck and back. This was a great article because even though I do have boys I see how those little brat girls act and I would never want one of my boys bringing them home to meet my husband and I.(Not all girls of course) I am scared for my boys future with the type of girl they choose. I will just really have to let them know all the negative signs and when to RUN! My advice to those with girls or even boys too is moniter there friends like a hawk! My parents did that with all of us and weeded out the bad kids and actually had guts back then and went straight to the parent and the kid if there was a problem. I have done this with my boys and they now have the greatest group of friends and parents because we wanted to know what type of familys and values their friends family had. When your child has a great strong group of friends its easier !
for them to shrug off the bullies because they have support."
11/7/2007:
"With all due respect, it does start at home. It is not only at home, but the problem lies that when you then get a group of girls that see the same things from their parents (especially Moms), it then become strong on the school front due to more than one child talking about other kids behinds their backs. I hope that we as parents that care, truly talk and help empower our children how to appropriately stand up for (without the risk of losing a so called friend) ones that are being talked about by others in your social group. We struggled a bit on how my child could stand up, but came up with trying to say, 'It's not nice to talk about others behing their backs.' If my child wasn't comfortable enough to be able to say this because the bully would then fire at them, the best approach was then to run over to a different area on the playground when the gossip would be stated."
11/7/2007:
"In an ideal world this info is perfect but we do not live in an ideal world, do we! When my 11yr old daughter was assaulted at her school she recieved the same punishment as her attacker.(my daughter had a concussion from this attack for over three weeks).The principle gave them both a one day suspension! Can you advise me and other parents of what to do when a child is confronted in a bathroom by a bully and then punched to the ground? Please don't say that the child should leave the bathroom. She was pinned to the wall and could not get away so she got her leg in between herself and the other girl (who is a good 45lbs heavier than her)and shoved her off. Due to the action she took she apparently deserved a suspension. The attacker was not hurt at all and in fact laughed about the whole thing with her friends. Give me some advice here. I want to know your opinion.There is a lot of politics and tape to deal with when an assault happens at a school and nobody in the district !
seems to care and wants the problem to just go away so they do everything in their power to sweep it under the rug heaven forbid the story gets out and gives the school a bad rep! thats what l think it all comes down too. Thank you"
